Lars Windhorst Story - Overcoming Challenging Times
"I was entirely destroyed"
Some people get ruined by a divorce or because they lost their jobs. You declared your personal bankruptcy with more than 70 million euros in debts. Only one year later, you were back in business. How does it work?
Lars Windhorst: It was not as easy as it sounds. The personal bankruptcy was truly a most bitter defeat. I was entirely destroyed, could not obtain a credit card anymore or a bank account. Not even a contract for a cellphone.
And then?
I drove a borrowed car. My family pooled expenses and helped me with money. Then I started working hard and madly called former business partners and visited them in order to find out if they were still willing to do some business with me. The response was surprisingly positive. This gave me energy.
In other words: You went on and on to people. A companion once said about you: "Lars is like God. You have to believe in him but you cannot prove anything." How does Lars Windhorst explain the phenomenon Lars Windhorst?
Not a bit, I am a person like any other even if my life career is not exactly a typical one. Besides, I did not go on and on to people. I convinced them and created trust.
Obviously successfully. Especially, since you got off rather lightly regarding your personal bankruptcy: For a compensation of comparatively mere 1.6 million euros the creditors waved claims in the amount of 72 million euros. Herein the tremendous sales talent that even your enemies accuse you of became apparent?
Okay, I certainly have a sales talent. However, this alone does not get you anywhere. Expertise and a certain sense of emotional intelligence are important as well. You have to develop a greater understanding for what is going on in other people's minds and adjust to it. This is certainly one of my strengths.
How imortant are networks?
Windhorst: I always put a lot of time and energy into good personal relationships. It eventually pays off. And I certainly pursue business objectives with great endurance, strong will, passion and determination.
Do you get annoyed by the fact that a lot of people who are doing business with you today do not want to make it public because of your past and your reputation?
Fine, especially in Germany I plunged deeply. From the point of view of many people I surely have a colorful past. However the businesses I carry out today are not colorful. These are discrete and professional transactions and investments.
You then started to work for the South African-British major strategic investor Rob Hersov. As you were filing for bankruptcy you owed him about four million euros. Do you work the debt off, now?
This has nothing to do with Hersov's decision to work together. I believe he saw a chance to work together with me on something exciting and potentially successful.
In spring of 2004 you founded together with Hersov's financial participation the company Sapinda.
The company was not the key element of the partnership. During this difficult time he sticked to me, with his name and his network. That was courageous and I have great respect for him.
With the Sapinda subsidiary Vatas in Germany you became the biggest single shareholder at Air Berlin. It is said that you earned 100 million euros within three months through a share transaction at Freenet.
Since 2004 we steadily achieved great financial performance. From an economic and financial angle this was the most successful time in my entrepreneurial life. At the Windhorst group which collapsed in 2001 we had more spectacular transactions and projects, more employees, much revenue, and activities. However, in the end not much money was ever earned.
Lars Windhorst: It was not as easy as it sounds. The personal bankruptcy was truly a most bitter defeat. I was entirely destroyed, could not obtain a credit card anymore or a bank account. Not even a contract for a cellphone.
And then?
I drove a borrowed car. My family pooled expenses and helped me with money. Then I started working hard and madly called former business partners and visited them in order to find out if they were still willing to do some business with me. The response was surprisingly positive. This gave me energy.
In other words: You went on and on to people. A companion once said about you: "Lars is like God. You have to believe in him but you cannot prove anything." How does Lars Windhorst explain the phenomenon Lars Windhorst?
Not a bit, I am a person like any other even if my life career is not exactly a typical one. Besides, I did not go on and on to people. I convinced them and created trust.
Obviously successfully. Especially, since you got off rather lightly regarding your personal bankruptcy: For a compensation of comparatively mere 1.6 million euros the creditors waved claims in the amount of 72 million euros. Herein the tremendous sales talent that even your enemies accuse you of became apparent?
Okay, I certainly have a sales talent. However, this alone does not get you anywhere. Expertise and a certain sense of emotional intelligence are important as well. You have to develop a greater understanding for what is going on in other people's minds and adjust to it. This is certainly one of my strengths.
How imortant are networks?
Windhorst: I always put a lot of time and energy into good personal relationships. It eventually pays off. And I certainly pursue business objectives with great endurance, strong will, passion and determination.
Do you get annoyed by the fact that a lot of people who are doing business with you today do not want to make it public because of your past and your reputation?
Fine, especially in Germany I plunged deeply. From the point of view of many people I surely have a colorful past. However the businesses I carry out today are not colorful. These are discrete and professional transactions and investments.
You then started to work for the South African-British major strategic investor Rob Hersov. As you were filing for bankruptcy you owed him about four million euros. Do you work the debt off, now?
This has nothing to do with Hersov's decision to work together. I believe he saw a chance to work together with me on something exciting and potentially successful.
In spring of 2004 you founded together with Hersov's financial participation the company Sapinda.
The company was not the key element of the partnership. During this difficult time he sticked to me, with his name and his network. That was courageous and I have great respect for him.
With the Sapinda subsidiary Vatas in Germany you became the biggest single shareholder at Air Berlin. It is said that you earned 100 million euros within three months through a share transaction at Freenet.
Since 2004 we steadily achieved great financial performance. From an economic and financial angle this was the most successful time in my entrepreneurial life. At the Windhorst group which collapsed in 2001 we had more spectacular transactions and projects, more employees, much revenue, and activities. However, in the end not much money was ever earned.
“At first a sloping position, then loss of control”
Christmas 2007 you were in a plane crash in Kazakhstan. How did you survive?
Lars Windhorst: I was sitting directly behind the cockpit. I can still visualise it, the plane first got into an excessive sloping position and after that out of control. Then, I lost consciousness. When I woke up I was lying next to the plane in the middle of the snow. At first I did not know what happened. By and by I realized. The pilot was seriously injured while the copilot was dead. I had burns on my face, bruises, broken ribs and they had to sew on back one of my ears. After four weeks I was back on my feet again.
Did the accident change your life?
I was in hospital and couldn't do a thing which I was not used to at all. Inevitably you start to think. About the accident and you ask yourself questions such as: What have I accomplished so far? What is happening to me? Where do I want to go? In the following weeks and months I called people I haven't talked to in a long time. I started intensifying private relationships as well as looking at myself. Ever since then, I work out more often and I live a more conscious and healthy life. When the financial markets started to crash which meant a new extreme challenge to me I was barely out of hospital.
It was not that long ago we saw ugly headlines again as you ordered shares at NordLB which you did not collect. What went wrong?
We had a positive and successful mutual business relationship for a long period of time with NordLB. Which then concluded in a conflict. This was very regrettable.
Shortly before Christmas 2009 you emerged relatively unscathed out of a trial in Berlin which had pressured and paralyzed you for a long time. The matter had involved embezzlement, fraud and insolvency delicts. Do you have a criminal record, now?
No, not yet. I might be previously convicted for committing embezzlement to the disfavor of my own former company. This is the maximum penalty, but not yet certain. It will be clarified at a seperate trial date. Prior to this I have to fulfil payment of fines. Thereupon these proceedings will be ultimately halted. To me this means a great relief, since the longstanding investigations have been by far the biggest burden.
Among others you were accused of fraud. It is said that you borrowed ten million euros from hospital operator Ulrich Marseille but you didn't pay the money back. Shortly before the start of court proceedings the money did start flowing back although Marseille could not have legally claimed the money anymore because of your insolvency. Did you pay the money back to be in a better light at court?
I have always been in close contact to Ulrich Marseille. This issue destroyed our relationship. Shortly after the plane crash I re-established the contact with him. Many years there was no direct communication between us which was not good afterwards. From a legal point of view frontlines often solidify and conflicts escalate in a way both sides never intended to it to happen. I am glad we managed make peace with each other.
In the last year the Vatas subsidiary of Sapinda went into bankruptcy. Again, there was talk of a Windhorst bankruptcy.
The bankruptcy of Vatas cannot be compared to the bankruptcies of one of the former Windhorst companies. The extraordinary upheavals on the credit markets were particularly felt by the Sapinda group - in retrospect also because of the high level of risk we took. But it was certainly not a ceasing of operation for the group or a new beginning in all aspects. The business proceedings of Vatas were undertaken by Sapinda-Deutschland as a successor.
A common trick to get rid of liabilities.
Just a moment, it is not a trick but a rather regulatory process imposed by the law. Of course it is very regrettable that financial losses were caused through the Vatas insolvency. On the other hand, it must be said that not many market participant managed without losses at that time.
What are you doing today?
We invest in Debt and in Private and Public Equity as well as in interesting ventures. In this we see a very interesting market phase right now. There is a huge asymmetry between companies in need of capital and those who have a lot of money to invest. I believe that we can play a good, interesting, and profitable role in this market.
What do you personally do differently than previously?
Windhorst: I gather a team of experienced people around me. We complement each other perfectly. For instance, I am not as strong on organization. Most notably we established a rigorous risk management within the company. In addition I consistently pull through projects and do not get distracted anymore. I want to do business professionally and successfully in the European Market and I want to earn my reputation back in Germany.
Being interviewed again in eight years from now - which headline would you like to read about yourself?
It will satisfy me if facts and figures about my accomplishments will speak for themselves.
Lars Windhorst: I was sitting directly behind the cockpit. I can still visualise it, the plane first got into an excessive sloping position and after that out of control. Then, I lost consciousness. When I woke up I was lying next to the plane in the middle of the snow. At first I did not know what happened. By and by I realized. The pilot was seriously injured while the copilot was dead. I had burns on my face, bruises, broken ribs and they had to sew on back one of my ears. After four weeks I was back on my feet again.
Did the accident change your life?
I was in hospital and couldn't do a thing which I was not used to at all. Inevitably you start to think. About the accident and you ask yourself questions such as: What have I accomplished so far? What is happening to me? Where do I want to go? In the following weeks and months I called people I haven't talked to in a long time. I started intensifying private relationships as well as looking at myself. Ever since then, I work out more often and I live a more conscious and healthy life. When the financial markets started to crash which meant a new extreme challenge to me I was barely out of hospital.
It was not that long ago we saw ugly headlines again as you ordered shares at NordLB which you did not collect. What went wrong?
We had a positive and successful mutual business relationship for a long period of time with NordLB. Which then concluded in a conflict. This was very regrettable.
Shortly before Christmas 2009 you emerged relatively unscathed out of a trial in Berlin which had pressured and paralyzed you for a long time. The matter had involved embezzlement, fraud and insolvency delicts. Do you have a criminal record, now?
No, not yet. I might be previously convicted for committing embezzlement to the disfavor of my own former company. This is the maximum penalty, but not yet certain. It will be clarified at a seperate trial date. Prior to this I have to fulfil payment of fines. Thereupon these proceedings will be ultimately halted. To me this means a great relief, since the longstanding investigations have been by far the biggest burden.
Among others you were accused of fraud. It is said that you borrowed ten million euros from hospital operator Ulrich Marseille but you didn't pay the money back. Shortly before the start of court proceedings the money did start flowing back although Marseille could not have legally claimed the money anymore because of your insolvency. Did you pay the money back to be in a better light at court?
I have always been in close contact to Ulrich Marseille. This issue destroyed our relationship. Shortly after the plane crash I re-established the contact with him. Many years there was no direct communication between us which was not good afterwards. From a legal point of view frontlines often solidify and conflicts escalate in a way both sides never intended to it to happen. I am glad we managed make peace with each other.
In the last year the Vatas subsidiary of Sapinda went into bankruptcy. Again, there was talk of a Windhorst bankruptcy.
The bankruptcy of Vatas cannot be compared to the bankruptcies of one of the former Windhorst companies. The extraordinary upheavals on the credit markets were particularly felt by the Sapinda group - in retrospect also because of the high level of risk we took. But it was certainly not a ceasing of operation for the group or a new beginning in all aspects. The business proceedings of Vatas were undertaken by Sapinda-Deutschland as a successor.
A common trick to get rid of liabilities.
Just a moment, it is not a trick but a rather regulatory process imposed by the law. Of course it is very regrettable that financial losses were caused through the Vatas insolvency. On the other hand, it must be said that not many market participant managed without losses at that time.
What are you doing today?
We invest in Debt and in Private and Public Equity as well as in interesting ventures. In this we see a very interesting market phase right now. There is a huge asymmetry between companies in need of capital and those who have a lot of money to invest. I believe that we can play a good, interesting, and profitable role in this market.
What do you personally do differently than previously?
Windhorst: I gather a team of experienced people around me. We complement each other perfectly. For instance, I am not as strong on organization. Most notably we established a rigorous risk management within the company. In addition I consistently pull through projects and do not get distracted anymore. I want to do business professionally and successfully in the European Market and I want to earn my reputation back in Germany.
Being interviewed again in eight years from now - which headline would you like to read about yourself?
It will satisfy me if facts and figures about my accomplishments will speak for themselves.